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Audio Re-Setting In between Shots

Not sure why this is happening.  But my audio keeps resetting every time I switch shots.  The meters aren't showing the correct output either.  Also despite having my mic audio level at +6 in the mixer, my audio is so low compared to everything else on the saved to disk version.  

 

Not sure if you can offer help or a point in the right direction.

 

  • Windows 10 Pro For Workstations v 1903
  • Wirecast Pro 12.1.1
  • HP z840 Workstation Intel Xeon(R) CPU 55-2630 v4 2.20Hhz (dual processor)
  • Using an USB Blue Microphone under "System Device"
  • Also Have a logitect 920 camera
  • Wirecast preference settings (be complete) 
  • Canvas 1280 X 720 
  • Streaming to virtual camera and mic.  Also recording to disk, 720p30 (4MBs) x264 H.264 
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  • The audio reset might be a bug. 

    The audio level is maybe due to a wrong mic. Make sure there is really the mic active that you use and not the build in mic that pics the ambient noise and indeed is low in gain/volume.

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  • Moxu

    Nice find. I'll explain something I've seen before, which may be related.

    If I have two shots that have the same audio source, you can have different audio volume level settings for the input. When you toggle shots, the volume level changes. (This is annoying - but that's another story).

    Essentially, each shot - even for the same input maintains its own audio settings, and changing shots will take you to the last known settings for that shot.

    What I think is happening. When you change shots, it is probably taking a copy of the last known settings for that shot. HOWEVER, you showed that you are changing the master volume. I am going to make an assumption that the master volume is not saved (but has a default value linked to each shot). When you change shots, it reverts to that default value.

    What I can confirm - I tested on my rig using your steps to reproduce. And it is 100% reproducible. Absolutely a bug for the resetting.

    GK

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  • Moxu  the best way to test for this is create a New Document and use just two shots and switch back and forth. It's not clear what your audio source is (the USB Mic in both shots?) but use the same source. Then toggle back and forth and see what happens. No need to stream or record, just check for the change in the master audio fader.

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  • Moxu   Two shots, each using same USB Mic as only audio source. Note what happens when Preview and Live audio differ.  I've blown up the Fader to make it more obvious.

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  • Moxu  this with the Audio Mixer Faders visible.

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  • CraigS FIgures, I made a gif demo just as you were.

    I believe what Moxu is getting to is that applying a volume adjustment live due to it being a requirement gets undone upon changing a shot. This seems like it is clearly a bug as any changes made to the live audio should reflect to the live audio output. These changes are not being made to shot contents or sources, rather the document output.

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  • Matthew Potter Currently live audio carries the preview level so it changes. If you want live audio level constant that would be a change in behavior. Developers might consider this a feature request. The problem with listing as a bug, developers may decide works as intended (even if one disagrees with the intention). As a Feature Request ensures it'll be evaluated.

    Developers might feel that changing in Preview then taking the change might be useful if you want a different level for a subsequent shot even if it's the same audio source tied to a different shot.

    As a Feature Request, it may even be possible to make it a user toggle depending on the desired behavior

    It is clear it changes though and very easy to demonstrate.

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  • CraigS I think this is another dogfood issue for the developers. As they don't use the product in live situations, they don't foresee that if somebody is changing the live audio, that it is for a specific reason.

    User story: "Oh crap, it's super high volume, I'm going to drop it down right away so I don't go above mandated levels. Few, that was close. It's now perfect and the shot was still live. Let me just change the shot now to a single close-up. Wait, what? the audio is back to being extremely loud! There was no audio change. All the audio is on the same shot in layer 5!"

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  • Matthew Potter Good example but there may well be some users who prefer the other way of functioning. You'd have to make the case to the developers that live broadcast adjustment should be maintained through shot changes.

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  • CraigS Can you think of ANY use case where somebody changes the audio on the live output and expects it to go back to the base 0 on ANY change? I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I truly cannot think of how that could be the case. I could see somebody seeing the levels on the preview side and expecting it to go to the live but not the reverse.

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  • Matthew Potter said:
    Can you think of ANY use case where somebody changes the audio on the live output and expects it to go back to the base 0 on ANY change?

     Yes, where the audio output level is specific to the shot being used. During certain non cut transitions the audio changes as if moving a fader.

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  • CraigS and in those cases, you would specifically adjust that input's audio levels. I thought the point of the sliders for the preview and the live were specifically to control their respected levels? You have preview and output buttons below them. Clicking on the preview button to monitor that and then pushing that shot to go live doesn't make the live to activate. Not to speak for what the developers intended for but one can only assume that the meter adjustment input is specifically designed to adjust that output level.

    Considering that since adding a primary dedicated audio source (for say a single USB audio interface) was removed and many of us dedicate a specific entire layer to a single input shot for that, we clearly hadn't seen this issue however with the use case above, this seems like it's an oversight that needs to be addressed. If a producer is generating shots with multiple audio inputs per camera source and they adjust the feed as a whole, all audio from things like PiP that were adjusted in the original would need to be re-adjusted yet again for every time they changed from 1-up, 2-up, 3-up, media source with voice over... then switching back and forth. The intent of having a global audio level controller was one of the reasons I prefer Wirecast to its competition. I had thought it was the better tool for audio controls.

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  • CraigS I too am going to submit this as a "feature request". We'll see what they have to say. If it is indeed the intent of how this works, sure. But I still feel like this is a bug.

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  • CraigS 

    CraigS said:
    Yes, where the audio output level is specific to the shot being used. During certain non cut transitions the audio changes as if moving a fader.

     I have one question Craig. Can you show me anywhere in the documentation where it describes that it I designed to work this way? Or if it is an "undocumented feature", surely there will be an internal user story within your design documentation.

    But, lets keep it real. I am with Matthew. It was not designed to operate this way. This is a bug, and should be treated as such. 

    GK

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  • Sorry it’s taken me so long to get back here.  Keeping both the monitor and output the same level “fixed” the problem.  Doesn’t make sense to me from a technical standpoint, or why the meter readings are so off when measuring volume input.  But the work around works for now.  

     

    I agree with everyone above.  What you set your master at it should stay at.  That’s the point of the master.  Thanks.  

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  • When transitioning the Previous Level Setting becomes the Live setting. The program is operating as intended. This is not a bug. This allows one to transition levels in an upcoming source requires a level different than the current live source. 

    Moxu said:
    What you set your master at it should stay at.

     Different sources may have different levels. In this case, especially with live streaming and multiple sources. 

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  • Hi CraigS

    CraigS said:
    When transitioning the Previous Level Setting becomes the Live setting. The program is operating as intended. This is not a bug.

    As requested previously, can you please point to the documentation where it describes that it will operate in this way? 

    If not - we could call this an "undocumented feature". And everyone in the IT industry will know that is a phrase that really relates to a bug.

    Or, if it is REALLY operating as intended, there will be some internal JIRA user story that specified this as a requirement. Now obviously, that is something that end users don't have access to. But I'm willing to wager that it does not exist.

    Sorry to be blunt, but Wirecast users deserve better. Please don't try to tell us that is operating as intended. In Australia, we have what is called the "pub test". If you could not go down to the pub and convince your average guy there about something, it is said to not pass the pub test. This one clearly fails.

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  • Greg Kuhnert Developer's intent. Given the design of the program as a switcher, it makes sense. It's both a video and audio switcher.

    Greg Kuhnert said:
    Please don't try to tell us that is operating as intended.

     I will because it is and it's been discussed.

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