Wirecast NDI output, audio ahead of video
Wirecast 14.3, Windows 21H1, NDI tools 4.5 installed. i7-6700, 48GB ram, 2x 1TB M.2 drives, Geforce 1080ti graphics, magewell 4 input SDI capture card.
New document, add an .MP4 video file. When outputting via Wirecast NDI, the audio precedes the video by around .25 - .3 seconds. If I play the file on windows media player and send it using NDI scan converter they line up. I've tried multiple windows, macos, and a birddog receiving devices and they all agree.
Similarly, with Wirecast 14.3, MacOS 11.5.2, on a 2018 15" Macbook pro; NDI audio output is ahead by around half of what the windows machine is, around .125 or so
On both of these systems, disk record and streaming are in sync. So encoder and NDI output are pulling audio from different points in the processing? Is there a way to get NDI audio output in sync? Any thoughts on why the windows machine is farther out of sync?
-
Billy Davidson said:
When outputting via Wirecast NDI, the audio precedes the video by around .25 - .3 secondsPlease check on Wirecast NDI out in NDI Video Monitor which can also record.
Compare that to the recording from Wirecast record to disk.
Also doing a Shot ISO recording of the source in Wirecast would be good since that would show us what Wirecast is doing pre-encoding In theory this should look fine though.
We may need to examine those files.
-
CraigS
Sorry, the files are too large to post here. I can put them on vimeo, but they reencode.
NDI video Monitor is where I saw the problem first. The original file is 1080p60. Its audio is also .035 ahead in premiere, but it isn't noticeable when played. Here's a time aligned screenshot from premiere.
-
Billy Davidson Can you please test with a "live" source such as a webcam with built-in Mic. We may want to determine if the source is a factor.
Billy Davidson said:
Sorry, the files are too large to post here.Can you create a new recording with a short sample and possibly use DropBox or Google drive if necessary?
-
CraigS
This was a followup to a live shoot where I first noticed the audio issue. In that case audio and video came in seperately and had to be time aligned in wirecast. I aligned the NDI output and then realized the record and stream were off, so realigned to them as they were priority. I'll work on getting files to you and a live shot.
-
CraigS you should be able to download these as original files. Let me know if you can't.
https://vimeo.com/bartha/download/586796186/1b42b7a009
https://vimeo.com/bartha/download/586796139/87fadd3148
https://vimeo.com/bartha/download/586796092/2e0f096916
-
Billy Davidson I'm not sure I understand the workflow involved in each in the Vimeo files..
To test NDI Out it might be best to mack a recording of that with NDI Video Monitor.
Scan Converter adds another variable.
We really need a local recording from Wirecast vis a recording of Wirecast NDI Out through NDI Video Monitor which can also record. That would give us the most direct comparison of Wirecast encoder out vs Wirecast NDI Out.
-
Billy Davidson To be clear what we'd really need.
1) source file
2) Wirecast Shot ISO recording of source file to verify Wirecast's handling before output
3) Wirecast Local recording to see Wirecast's encode handling.
4) Newtek NDI VIdeo Monitor recording of Wirecast NDI Out so see what Wirecast NDI Out looks like. -
CraigS
The vimeo files are all recorded off of Newtek NDI Video monitor on a mac on the same gigabit switch as the wirecast machine. The file names are the source and framerate. 2 are Wirecast NDI output at 30 and 60 FPS, 2 are scan converter at 30 and 60 fps showing it has much less audio lead from the same machine, just removing wirecast from the equation. The file labeled Audio Video Sync Test is the source file. I can work on the others in a little bit.
-
Billy Davidson said:
scan converter at 30 and 60 fpsSorry but the workflow for these is not clear. Scan Converter screen captures. Sends to? Recorded by? I don't understand the purpose of Scan Convertor and what it verifies.
Wirecast recording for comparison?
Please see my 4 point test.
-
CraigS
The purpose of the scan converter files is that the same source file is being played by a different application on the same source machine travelling over the same link to the same receiving machine to rule out network or hardware limitations.
Workflow:
Source File played in Wirecast> NDI output>network>NDI Video Monitor on mac
Source file played in Windows Media player on same machine> NDI Scan converter>network>NDI Video Monitor on mac.
You have 1 and 4 of your test.
Billy Davidson said:
I can work on the others in a little bit.
-
-
Billy Davidson said:
The purpose of the scan converter files is that the same source file is being played by a different application on the same source machine travelling over the same link to the same receiving machine to rule out network or hardware limitations.Since the issue is Wirecast encoder (in sync) vs Wirecast NDI Out (out of sync) that's what we'd need to see initially. NDI Video Monitor (for recording) can be run on the same computer as Wirecast.
Billy Davidson said:
You have 1 and 4 of your test.I'm sorry but I'm not sure how.
1 is the source file. These are files uploaded to Vimeo which involve further processing. This creates another variable.
I also don't see an NDI Video Monitor recording. And this should be the source file. Vimeo adds another variable.-
CraigS
You should have had the option to download original file on those links. Those would not have been reencoded. Is that not the case? If you selected that then you have the files for 1 and 4.
Every file I linked aside from the one labeled Audio Video Sync Test is a NDI Video Monitor Record off of the Mac listed in the workflow. Is there something about them that you are looking for that they don't have?
-
-
Billy Davidson said:
Is there something about them that you are looking for that they don't have?Just the local recording straight out of Wirecast as a "control." It should match the sync of your source test but it will help us confirm that.
I think I've been crisscrossing (posting questions that you may have already answered) sorry about that.
Investigation started WIRE-19209
-
CraigS
Local Wirecast record 30p canvas, 30p encoder:
https://vimeo.com/bartha/download/586924946/94e10d3bc6
Local Wirecast record 60p canvas, 60p encoder:
https://vimeo.com/bartha/download/586924994/437d21308e
Both of these seem to be leading as well, but not as much as that 30 frame NDI output.
I found out that if I enable Secondary Video output and route that audio to the system speakers while local monitor is enabled I get 2 clicks every second, so that could be taking audio at a different point in processing than local monitor. Not sure what that means for this issue, if anything.
ISO doesn't record video of a file, unless I'm missing a step.
-
-
Billy Davidson said:
ISO doesn't record video of a file, unless I'm missing a step.Shot ISO for a video file.
-
CraigS
CraigS said:
Shot ISO for a video file.I did that, it did not capture live video, just a still frame repeated.
May not play unless in live area though.
-
-
Billy Davidson said:
Both of these seem to be leading as well, but not as much as that 30 frame NDI output.That might be worth noting. I'll point it out to the developers.
-
Billy Davidson said:
I did that, it did not capture live video, just a still frame repeated.Media files don't play when not live even if one plays them in Preview.
-
I started the ISO and Wirecast Record, then took the media live. Do you think if I take it live then start the ISO it will record?
-
Billy Davidson Doesn't seem to record motion even when live. We'll investigate.
-
-
CraigS
Is there a way for me to track this issue aside from bugging you here? Also, I wanted to make sure this didn't go unnoticed from an earlier post:
@Billy Davidson said:
I found out that if I enable Secondary Video output and route that audio to the system speakers while local monitor is enabled I get 2 clicks every second, so that could be taking audio at a different point in processing than local monitor. Not sure what that means for this issue, if anything.-
Billy Davidson Looks like we've verified although a bit less for us so far.
-
CraigS
What system(s) are you testing on?
-
Billy Davidson Windows but we're still testing.
-
CraigS
How about system specs? My machine is a few years old, but is still well above minimum requirements. Just wondering if that's a factor.
-
-
Billy Davidson said:
Is there a way for me to track this issue aside from bugging you here?That's about it. If we hit a question I'll ask it here.
-
Billy Davidson said:
How about system specs?That's certainly one thing we look at. It's entirely possible certain features are more demanding than others.
-
Giving this one a kick as well.
Billy Davidson said:
I found out that if I enable Secondary Video output and route that audio to the system speakers while local monitor is enabled I get 2 clicks every second, so that could be taking audio at a different point in processing than local monitor. Not sure what that means for this issue, if anything.Also, I'm realizing that secondary video output itself is noticeably behind the live view. So much so that I've had to stop using it in the control room. I don't have a good way to measure this, but maybe .75-1 second behind
-
Billy Davidson We're still working on this one.
-
CraigS I figured. Should I start a new topic about the secondary video being late or are you working on it with the NDI issue?
-
-
Billy Davidson said:
Should I start a new topic about the secondary video being lateNew topic but they may be working on that as well. Do post details since on that thread as they may need the details.
-
Kicking all my old threads for updates.
-
Billy Davidson We're testing a potential fix for this.
-
CraigS How's that test going?
-
Billy Davidson We should have a beta you can test in the near future (don't have an exact date for it yet though). We believe we have this fixed.
-
-
WIRE-19209: Fixed issue where Wirecast NDI output could be out of sync.
The issue may be fixed in our public Beta
Download Wirecast 15 Beta Here.
https://telestreamforum.forumbee.com/t/y4hjdwp/15-0-beta-dec-23-2021-social-media-comment-moderation-performance-lots-more
Please test the issue you reported and post in the Beta Discussion forum only.
https://telestreamforum.forumbee.com/category/wirecast-beta-discussion
