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Audio out of sync

I have a problem where my video and audio become out of sync in the wirecast console. Meaning, I am looking at it in wirecast and the audio is out of sync (ahead). I've tested and checked everything and I can't figure out why. It only happens at certain times, it's not always out of sync, sometimes we could be halfway through streaming and it happens. I can't seem to figure out what's causing it. Sometimes it's several seconds out of sync, sometimes its a half second out of sync. Sometimes it's fine.

 

I've attached several screenshots of my settings for WireCast and my equipment and here are all of my system specs

 

Computer: Dell XPS 8930

OS:   Windows 10.0.17763 Build 17763

Processor: Intel Core i7-8700 CPU @ 3.20GHz, 6Cores, 12 Logical Processors
RAM: 32 GB

Hard Drive: 500 GB SSD

Video Capture Card: BlackMagic Decklink Duo 2 

WireCast Version: 13.0.2

 

There are 2 SDI cables that connect to the Decklink.

  1 is an SDI out connection from a TriCaster 410 sending 1080i 60fps, 

  2 is an SDI connection from a Sony HXR-NX5U camera sending 1080i

audio is embedded for both feeds

The delay happens with either input, it seems to happen whether we are streaming or not streaming. Restarting the software or the entire PC helps but we can't do that once we start streaming.

The only other piece of software that runs on the machine while WireCast is running is EasyWorship, which is presentation software that we use and send as a screen capture to Wirecast. EasyWorship projects to a second attached monitor and we use WireCast to capture that screen.

 

We stream to three separate sources. Two of them are to churchstreaming.tv and one to youtube. Again, the delay can happen even before we start streaming. The delay is in the console itself and not just in the stream.

 

I've been careful to keep WireCast updated hoping that this is an issue with the software but it always happens. I do not know what could be causing it or why it seems to only happen with "Live" video. It does not seem to happen with pre-recorded video either on wirecast or when the TriCaster sends a pre-recorded video. Only Live video from the camera or live video being sent out from the TriCaster The TriCaster sends its feeds out to multiple outputs and no other output has an audio delay so we are pretty certain it's not the TriCaster.

 

I'm at a loss as to what to do.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Since it's on input, you'd want to test each input individually. Ideally, just use a single source and test each input one at a time. That will confirm whether an input is at issue. I'd recommend testing with just the camera.

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  • I'm not sure what you mean by testing it. Test it how. Both inputs exhibit the same problem just at different times. What would I be testing, or how? Sorry if I'm just missing something.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Alan Coleman 

     

    1. Make sure no other software is running on the computer other than Wirecast.
    2. Make sure Wirecast Preferences Video Display Rate is set to 30fps.
    3. Set camera to 1080i60 and test it as only source in a new document.
    4. Monitor Wirecast audio and video without streaming or recording.
    5. Monitoring audio should be done through computer speakers or hard-wired speakers or headphones.
    6. Quit Wirecast.
    7. Move camera to other input.
    8. Start Wirecast and use it as only source in a new document.
    9. Monitor Wirecast audio and video without streaming or recording.
    10. In each case does audio go out of sync when monitoring Wirecast?
    11. This is the simplest way to define the issue.


    Tricaster adds complexity.
    Using two different types of sources adds complexity.
    So first determine what happens with using the same simple single source with each  input.

    When testing we must eliminate variables.
    The above test will determine how Wirecast is handling the Blackmagic inputs.

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  • Okay, I did a whole bunch of testing by stripping everything down and then building up one at a time until I hit the problem again.

    The problem seems to be this.

    When I am sending live video from the Tricaster AND also have EasyWorship running (it is on the same computer as WireCast). The TriCaster feed starts to slip out of sync.

    If I close EasyWorship before switching to the TriCaster's feed, all is fine. If the TriCaster is playing a pre-recorded video and not a live feed (which is camera plus separate audio source in the TriCaster) all is fine even if EasyWorship is up and running.

    I'm not sure of the correlation though. 

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Alan Coleman So it would seem Easy Worship may be interfering with Wirecast or the Tricaster output into Wirecast.

    You may need to run Easy Worship from another computer and send it to Wirecast.

    I'd prefer you to run my recommended test though otherwise, you may be heading down a complex path.

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  • I did everything you recommended. It's just that nothing came of it. The camera never went out of sync testing it alone and swapping and back and forth to different inputs. So I had to go further. That's why it took so long. 

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
    Alan Coleman said:
    did everything you recommended. It's just that nothing came of it. The camera never went out of sync testing it alone and swapping and back and forth to different inputs

     That's important information.

     

    Alan Coleman said:
    If I close EasyWorship before switching to the TriCaster's feed, all is fine

     So in the previous context, that means that TriCaster by itself is fine as well. 

    So EasyWorship may well be a factor.

    I'm reporting this to the developers and see what they have to say.
    Thanks for doing this testing.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Alan Coleman The developers have a few questions on EasyWorship's use of system resources.

    What is the CPU% you're seeing when everything including EasyWorship is running?
    Examining if the overall CPU% is a factor.

    If you run EasyWorship and don't Screen Capture it, do you still have the sync issue?
    Examing excluding EasyWorship as a source in Wirecast impacts Wirecasts task load vs the computer's own load which would still occur if EasyWorship were running but not being captured.

    If you uninstall Wirecast 13.0.2 and install and use Wirecast 12.2.1 using your same workflow do you still see the same sync issue?
    Examing if the issue is specific to changes the developers introduced in Wirecast 13.x

     

    Thanks in advance for doing this.

    Like
  • CPU Usage with Wirecast streaming (to 3 locations) and EasyWorship running is typically between 15% and 20%

    Yes, the problem occurs even without screen capture. 

     

    I haven't tried installing an older version of Wirecast to see if the problem persists. I've been wondering if it has something to do with newer versions of wirecast since we didn't seem to have this problem before... and now we have it and we always keep wirecast up to date.

    It'll take me some time to test this thoroughly though.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Thanks for that testing so far.

    Alan Coleman said:
    I've been wondering if it has something to do with newer versions of wirecast since we didn't seem to have this problem before.

     I have one more thing you can try before going back to 12.2.1. It's a function we changed in Wirecast 13.

    Go to Wirecast Preferences Shot Display and Live GPU Accelerated Icons and Live Audio Meters and Disable both. 
    Examining whether their interaction with third-party software running such as EasyWorship is resulting in resource use that causes the sync issue.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
    Alan Coleman said:
    It'll take me some time to test this thoroughly though.

     Do let us know as you can. Your testing is much appreciated and very much integral in our troubleshooting and fixing this issue.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
    Alan Coleman said:
    CPU Usage with Wirecast streaming (to 3 locations) and EasyWorship running is typically between 15% and 20%

     Can you test again and look at Windows Task Manager and the GPU usage as well?
    Developers are interested because that can be another cause of the sync issue.

    Also the Trace Log can give us some needed information. 

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  • I've seen all of the requests for testing. Because this only happens when my church is "Live" and no other time (I literally could play a video of service on the TriCaster for 8 hours straight and stream it through Wirecast without any issue), I have to wait a couple of days to test out all of this. I will do so this weekend and try to get through as many scenarios as possible but I may not be able to do everything until next Wednesday.  Then I will post my findings.

    Also, my team wants to upgrade EasyWorship from 6 to 7 to see if that resolves issues. So we are doing that as well.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Alan Coleman It could happen if you do local recording only so you don't have to go live if that's an impediment. Otherwise no worries.

    The Trace Log may give us detail on the cause
    username/AppData/Local/Temp/wirecast_trace_log.txt
    if you need to know the location.

    Alan Coleman said:
    (I literally could play a video of service on the TriCaster for 8 hours straight and stream it through Wirecast without any issue

    This and one of the major changes we made with 13 is GPU handling (live icons and live audio meters as an example) is why we're thinking the issue may be related to GPU functions and other programs using such resources. That's why we'd like to look at GPU%, impact when disabling the aforementioned preference settings and, the trace log which may tell us what's happening at a given moment as well as over time. Thank you in advance for helping as you can.

    Like
  • This problem has taken a drastic turn. Just when I thought I'd narrowed down the problem, it started manifesting again in other ways.

    I've tried again and again to replicate the problem using only our camera and live streaming during the day or recording but any time I do, it's perfectly fine, until we actually have to go live and people are watching. Its now sometimes manifests on the camera, and almost always on the TriCaster feed.  EasyWorship is apparently not a factor, it seems to happen even when nothing else is running. I'm still trying to run tests to see.

    What I have figured out is this. Under "Source Properties" if I switch "Format Detection" form "Automatic" to "Manual" for the feed that is acting up, then it will blip for a split second and then everything will be back in sync, which is a quick fix when we're live streaming since I can't shut wirecast down. If I already have Format Detection at Manual, then I just switch it back to automatic and it does the same thing, it will blip for a split second and then be back in sync, and it stays in sync after that as far as I know (at least for that source, sometimes I have to do this trick for both sources).

    Any thoughts as to what this might indicate?

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
    Alan Coleman said:
    until we actually have to go live and people are watching.

     The best test would be to do a local recording.
    If it only happens when live it may be related to the CDN.
    To double check that try doing a stream using similar settings to Facebook and YouTube. You may want to test that using generic RTMP Server to avoid any API related issues.  
     

    Alan Coleman said:
    if I switch "Format Detection" form "Automatic" to "Manual" for the feed that is acting up, then it will blip for a split second and then everything will be back in sync,

     

    Alan Coleman said:
    If I already have Format Detection at Manual, then I just switch it back to automatic and it does the same thing, it will blip for a split second and then be back in sync,

     This would point to Blackmagic though. You would see that in a local recording as well.

    This conflicts with the conclusions about EasyWorship.

    The problem in all your results is that there's no consistency in testing so there's no way to determine the cause. 

    We need a repeatable simple test that points to an issue. There are too many variables to know the cause.

    Like
  • We have always seen it locally, that's how we know it's happening. I mentioned that in my very first post.

    "I have a problem where my video and audio become out of sync in the wirecast console. Meaning, I am looking at it in wirecast and the audio is out of sync (ahead)."

    It doesn't matter if I'm recording, or streaming, or where I'm streaming to, it's out of sync in the console.

    I AM testing consistently. I'm getting inconsistent results. I can do the same test ( hook up camera ONLY to either of the blackmagic card ports, and stream or record) 100 times. The audio and video do NOT go out of sync. So I operated under the assumption that the camera feed wasn't an issue and that it was an issue with the TriCaster feed and something else. It wasn't until recently that the camera feed started going out of sync, though it happens inconsistently. I could do the test, and it's fine, then later, it's not. It's like its getting worse.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Alan Coleman Can you confirm that you get consistent results rolling back to Wirecast 12.2.1?  See link and look under Previous Versions to download and intstall

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  • That one I haven't done yet. I will need to probably wait until Tuesday before I can test that and then I will report findings.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
  • Sorry, that's just a misunderstanding "Live" for us means when we are broadcasting to 500 people during an actual service (Sundays and Wednesday). Every other time, we're just testing. We're sending feeds out to our CDN and YouTube, etc, or recording but it's all for testing purposes, no one is actually watching.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Alan Coleman Please roll back to 12.2.1 and confirm there's no sync issue. That'll let us know that whatever the cause it's 13 specific.

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  • CraigS Hello. Sorry, I didn't see this message until right this moment. I will try that and let you know. Do you have a download link you can provide? I am running Wirecast on a PC running Windows 10.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Ryan Thompson The following linked page under Previous Versions near the top.
    There's a variety of potential causes and we're working on a cause-specific to version 13 not present in 12. If it's another cause it could very well be present in 12.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Ryan Thompson Wirecast 13.1 Beta is now available in our beta forum. Do consider testing.

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