Elgato Stream Deck Feedback
Lynn Elliott I'm truly glad to see some progress on this finally. It's a good first go at it but here are my thoughts on the need before this launches:
- Instead of the "Shot Name" being a text box, give me a popup box option by default that is pre-populated with the current front-most document's existing shots (at the time of editing the button, not just on initial add) and an additional option "Other..." where it displays a text field for custom names" that you could use for dynamic / on the fly shots. A warning would be good notifying the user that if a shot DOESN'T exist with that name, no action will be taken.
- Add a Mode for any new "Collection" of shots on a per layer basis. Multiple shots can be selected (limit 1 per layer) that can be triggered for a selection. (Build your new hotkeys feature like this too)
- Show name in the icon needs to be smaller as it currently does not fit, even for base camera sources.
- Re-arrange the available button types so stream and record are at the bottom of the list. "Shot" will be the most used and therefore should be at the top.
- Additional button type to change "Go" button to instead be 1 of the 3 button types. This would allow for instant access to Cut, OR any of the optional transition types, including stingers.
- "Go Primary"
- "Go Secondary"
- "Go Tertiary"
- Additional button type to "change one of the 'go' buttons to a different type" would be a control to update transition 2 to be stinger a, then a button to switch it to another transition type (like back to dissolve)
- Additional button type to enable/disable autolive mode
- Additional button type to start and stop specified timers
- Additional button type to start and stop specified playlists
- Additional button type to start and stop specified multimedia file shots
- Additional button type to start and stop specified ISO recordings
- Additional button type to start and stop specified streams instead of "All" (popup box that defaults to "all" but can be changed to any of the documents current available streams)
- Additional button type to recall a PTZ preset of a selected camera
- The preview of the current shot (or collection) selected should be able to be previewed in the button display on the stream deck. Generating of these images can be done at a much slower rate than the layer icons but it would be good for even a 5sec update. Or at least being able to "capture" a preview frame as the graphic.
HI Matthew Potter ,
Thank you for the comprehensive feedback! I want to make sure I understand all your comments, so please read below and send confirm if I'm understanding each item correctly.
So here 'goes. (this is going to be long, sorry)
Matthew Potter said:
Instead of the "Shot Name" being a text box, give me a popup box option by default that is pre-populated with the current front-most document's existing shots (at the time of editing the button, not just on initial add) and an additional option "Other..." where it displays a text field for custom names" that you could use for dynamic / on the fly shots. A warning would be good notifying the user that if a shot DOESN'T exist with that name, no action will be taken.
What I understand: The problem you are trying to solve is that in order to save time and reduce errors you would like to be able to choose from a list of all shots in the document rather than have to type your shot name out -- when using the mode "by Name" to identify your shots. Does this accurately describe the problem you're trying to solve?
Then, as an additional improvement: you should have the ability add the name of a shot that doesn't currently exist in your document -- to save time and give you the ability to quickly add a shot into your document that will have a button already mapped to it . Does this accurately describe the problem you're trying to solve?
Note: You can achieve this now if you use the "by Index" or "by Grid" mode. If you add a button that maps to Layer 1 / Index 4, then once you add a shot in that location your button will automatically be mapped to it. Would that work as one possible solution for this problem?
Also NOTE: Since in the above scenario, all your current shots would be selectable, then anything you type in "Other" would theoretically not be a current shot - so I'm not sure if a warning is necessary to tell user that the shot does not currently exist. Also note: that you should be using Stream Deck with only one document open (ref to your comment, "the current front-most document's shots...")
Matthew Potter said:
Add a Mode for any new "Collection" of shots on a per layer basis. Multiple shots can be selected (limit 1 per layer) that can be triggered for a selection. (Build your new hotkeys feature like this too)
What I understand: The problem you are trying to solve is you want to make composite shots live (i.e. multiple shots on multiple layers) with one Stream Deck button to save time, and ensure smooth transitions. Does this accurately describe the problem you're trying to solve?
What I understand: The problem you are trying to solve is that when you use the "by Name" mode, the full name of your shot does not always fully fit on the Stream Deck button, making it difficult to identify your shots. Does this accurately describe the problem you're trying to solve? Note: When you use "by Index" or "by Grid" the name of the shot will be displayed on two lines as Layer x / Index x. In either of these modes AND in the 'by Name" mode, you can override that name by typing in a "Title". Would using that capability help solve your problem?
What I understand: The problem you are trying to solve is that in a list of 4 possible options, it's your opinion the one you use the most should be positioned in the top-most option to make it easiest to select. Does this accurately describe the problem you're trying to solve?
Matthew Potter said:
Additional button type to change "Go" button to instead be 1 of the 3 button types. This would allow for instant access to Cut, OR any of the optional transition types, including stingers.
What I understand: The problem you are trying to solve is you should have the ability to choose a transition type by using the Stream Deck- so you don't have to change that by pressing a button in the interface. Does this accurately describe the problem you're trying to solve?
Matthew Potter said:
Additional button type to "change one of the 'go' buttons to a different type" would be a control to update transition 2 to be stinger a, then a button to switch it to another transition type (like back to dissolve)
What I understand: The problem you are trying to solve is the same as above - you should have the ability to change your transition type by using the Stream Deck- so you don't have to change that by pressing a button in the interface. Does this accurately describe the problem you're trying to solve?
Matthew Potter said:
Additional button type to enable/disable autolive mode
What I understand: The problem you are trying to solve is you should have the toggle autolive mode by using a button on the Stream Deck, so you can make the change quickly and without having to go into the interface to do so. Does this accurately describe the problem you're trying to solve?
Matthew Potter said:
Additional button type to start and stop specified timers
What I understand: The problem you are trying to solve is you should have the ability to stop and start a countdown timer or a stopwatch in a particular shot in your document, to make it quicker and easier than having to access that in the shot properties. Does this accurately describe the problem you're trying to solve?
Curious: if you were able to map composite shots (in #2 above), and one of those shots had a timer in it - how would you expect the button control to work for that?
Matthew Potter said:
Additional button type to start and stop specified playlists
What I understand: Note: when you have a playlist shot, this can be accessed and controlled just like any other shot in the Stream Deck. What problem are you trying to solve, and what capability are you wanting a Stream Deck button to control?
Matthew Potter said:
Additional button type to start and stop specified multimedia file shots
What I understand: When you have a media file in a shot, it will follow the playback settings set in the Source Properties for that media file. (e.g. When Finished, Begin playing checkbox, Remember position checkbox). So, can you clarify what is the problem you are trying to solve here and what is the capability you want a Stream Deck button to control?
Matthew Potter said:
Additional button type to start and stop specified ISO recordings
What I understand: The problem you are trying to solve is you should have the ability to map an already configured ISO channel to a Stream Deck button, to start/stop recording of that channel, in order to save time in selecting that from the interface. Does this accurately describe the problem you're trying to solve?
Would it also be helpful to have the ability to STOP/START ALL ISO recordings with one button?
Matthew Potter said:
Additional button type to start and stop specified streams instead of "All" (popup box that defaults to "all" but can be changed to any of the documents current available streams)
What I understand: The problem you are trying to solve is you should have the ability to map a single already configured streaming or recording destination to a Stream Deck button, and start/stop the streaming of just that destination, in order to save time in selecting that from the interface. Does this accurately describe the problem you're trying to solve?
Matthew Potter said:
Additional button type to recall a PTZ preset of a selected camera
What I understand: The problem you are trying to solve is you should have the ability to map an already configured PTZ preset to a Stream Deck button, in order to save time by accessing that from Stream Deck rather than from the PTZ Controller interface in Wirecast. Does this accurately describe the problem you're trying to solve?
What I understand: The problem you are trying to solve is you should be able to see an image of your shot on the actual Stream Deck button, (in addition to the lettering) in order to help you identify that shot. Does this accurately describe the problem you're trying to solve?
I'm not sure what among these requests are even possible at this point, but I want to make sure I understand your asks and requests first. Thanks again for the feedback, and I look forward to your answers to my questions above.
First of all, thank you got getting back to me on the list lynn_elliott. Based on what I'm seeing, you seem to be clearly interested in seeing the issues I'm trying to solve rather than usability and functionality based upon planned usage. As such, I have put together the following to give more context to the features and hopefully can answer the "What I understand" for each of your queries.
1) Shot name being a chooser rather than a text box
There are currently 3 methods of choosing a shot:
An index of the shot in the layer and position
A location within the position of the stream-deck device
The name of a layer
While these are good starts, They are not how users would use both Streamdeck nor Wirecast. A primary reason users continue to use Wirecast over its competition is due to how it handles being able to generate a large variety of shots using up to 5 layers of content. These layers of content allow for additions and rearranging of various media dynamically and quickly while still maintaining fast shot transitions and building. The Index of the shots will change. Any current user can verify that the end of show positioning, shot count, shot positions are never the same as they were at the beginning. Between new callers coming in, examples of content being submitted, overlays, etc… the layout of a Wirecast's layers and their fluidity is one of it's benefits. Using the index of a shot is not an option for most power users. Power users that are likely using this device. The location of the stream-deck device button is also a bizarre one as you're essentially dictating the position that the shot needs to live. What about the shot in the top left? If I use any type of folder structure, that shot will never be available to me. Heck, most people don't own the 32 which even that is limited to 4 rows. The intent of the text / label is clearly the best option and one that your engineers have thought about and see a value to however my intent of allowing a popup box (<select /> tag in HTML) is to simplify the functionality for the users. At the moment, in order to use the feature, you need to
Click on the layer in question
Go to the first tab
Highlight the text content
Copy that text content (All of which live if the event has started)
Open the stream-deck software
Insert the new button type
Choose the name option
Click in the text field
Paste the clipboard
Hope you don't have duplicate named layers
(like when you have a camera feed that is added multiple times but cropped or scaled in one)
I'm proposing that you cut that list in half by offering a select box with the current available shots as predefined options to mitigate the need to copy and paste shot names that are likely going to change unless you're working with a static document.
Open stream-deck software
Insert the new button type
Choose the name option
Select a name field
Note: names would be prefaced by the layer or use select box groupings similar to web option groups
The "Other" option is not really needed but due to you already having a text label available, it's not as if you're adding effort into it for the flexibility of having an ability to pre-generate buttons for a default Streamdeck layout knowing that the shot names generated will eventually be created.
2) Add a new mode of "Collection"
As I've stated many times before, Wirecast's greatest benefit is clearly it's layering and shot composition. With the current failings of the hotkeys and the lack of any scripting, an addition to create shot collections would allow for creating a button that would dynamically create the base compositions from each layer. Without being able to define specific collections, even the 32 button stream deck would quickly run out of available locations given even the most basic of layouts. The purpose of using stream deck in your competition is to select scenes or enable/disable the visibility of specific scene layers. This single addition to their method currently out-weighs the current usability of Wirecast. It allows for the general flexibility that matches Wirecast's multi-layering user experience. If Wirecast implements an ability to generate "Collections" of shots and allow for single a single button to recall that, it would put itself back into the better method of generating contextual shots. The only current way of doing this is to create individual shots of full compositions and ignore any layering. Saving time is not the goal. Saving actions is. Select a specific button and transition. Sure, I guess you could argue that time is the overall goal but if I'm live and I need to select multiple different layers, then "go", that is inefficient. It's how Wirecast currently works but it is not how your users should need to spend their attention when there is clearly something better available to be done.
3) The name should be smaller
If I add ANY of my cameras to the shots, the auto-generated name does not fit. If you look to many of the higher-used / popular plugins you will find an option for position and font-size. I'm just saying that the current default chosen scale is a bit larger than most. Not critical but something that should have 10mins of attention from the engineers. The grid and index ones are clearly designed to fit the content with the largest possible (which is appreciated) however having a limitation to the available locations has already been stated above and will result in people not using those methods often. Also, while your engineers (and myself in this case) understand that "0" is the primary index number an array starts with, don't forget your audience and normal users will not understand that 0 is the first. And if 0 is selected, why not specifically state "clear" instead of "index: 0", this would allow for the indexing to remain 1 being the second available shot on the layer yet no label confusion for those out there that are not devs?
4) Button type arrangement update
This is negligible. It's currently not in alphabetical order anyway, I just figured you may want to priorize the highest usage buttons to be the first in the list rather than the last. With the other button types, it should be re-examined for all of them but I would still consider the "shot" option to be the top-most (near the "Wirecast" brand name) to be the most critically important.
5) "Go" Button differences
My goal here is to provide a manner in which to not need to have Wirecast the front most application when using one transition or another. Currently, if the "go" button is used, you need to specify which of the 2 (or 3 if you've enabled it in the preferences) is selected. For me, I can tell you that I have used that button less than 10 times in the over half-decade I've been using Wirecast. I use the spacebar and enter key in order to transition as they are quick, easy and easily defined. Having access to these types of quick options is simply expected as a user. I would love to see how many people both new and old, click the transition type then click the "go" button vs using the keyboard equivalents. Truly, I say this with heart. If you're reading this and you are a user, what do you do? Am I wrong here? Do people use the button or do you (like me) use the keyboard for it?
6) Button option to change "Go" transition type
With the new stinger feature, you're likely seeing a lot of people using that 3rd transition button specifically for it. "Cut", "Dissolve", "Stinger X" is likely the most used. But being able to change any of those transition types to others (Stinger a, stinger b, stinger c, … etc...) without needing to swap back into Wirecast is the goal here. I'm going to be honest, I use cut and dissolve only. I haven't used stinger, and I make it a specific workflow process to change the (by default) smooth transition to dissolve since it causes more issues than it's worth. I would likely not benefit from this feature / button but it is one that I can foresee that many would and it seems to be an easy 20min feature add that currently IS NOT AVAILABLE for your competition.
7) Enable/Disable autolive
The autolive is the only way to currently use the global hotkeys in Wirecast and have it transition on new shots being selected. While it is good to have for quick swapping from pre-composed shots or single changes, it is NOT good for creating a multi-layered shot composition (without the collection option listed above). The "Go" features are something that I would likely ALWAYS use but there are a lot of people who use auto-live already anyway, especially those coming from your competition and are on a macOS due to the limitations of not being able to use studio mode for the last 7 version. The usage here would be to set autolive active, be able to quickly use the shot collection buttons to produce a show live, disable it to create a non-collection composition, push "go", and re-enable the autolive to continue producing.
8) Start/Stop Timers
There is no way to quickly enable, disable a timer without selecting the layer, then the first tab, then the timer sub-layer, then select the last tab and click the appropriate action. Or Telestream can update the bug / feature request done in the beta of the timer/countdown that allowed for a "play on live" functionality. There are many shows that include a timer countdown to live that need special attention when transitioning to "go" and start at the same time. This is a quality of life improvement to be honest and something that isn't a critical item but again, is SUPER simple. Clocks/timers have a shot name that can be selected in a select box then you have control over start/stop/reset. There are simply too many steps to control timers currently… also, "timer" is NOT an option nor a search criteria for the "clock" layer… found that out while just pulling up the feature now. Threw me off there as I can't remember ever using it as a clock in a production. Strange that it would be that as a default label.
9/10) Playlist & media controls
Let's use a real-world use case here. I know and have discussed with Adafruit Industries that they use Wirecast. Or at least did 8 months ago (they could still be but I cannot confirm). Their show consists of showcasing images, GIFs, video of products that they are launching. They use the playlist feature for each of their product groupings. Navigating each playlist requires that they open the playlist and then select each shot in turn, then go out to the main list, dive into another playlist and continue. The controls are more that this would provide tools for them to activate a playlist and control the navigation without needing to dive into it or better yet, play / pause the playlist like those who do walkthroughs of drone footage and discuss it with their audience. Being able to pause media and playlist content without diving into a playlist and risking selecting incorrect shots.
11/12) Recording / Streaming triggers for specific ones
Like the shot list, this should be a popup menu (select box) that by default has a top most option that is "All" and then optional other options if they exist that are the named streams, records and ISOs. If I have a stream setup for primary and backup, I don't want to activate both. The backup is just that. Oh, not enough bandwidth, quickly trigger the backup and disable the primary. You provide this functionality already in the menu items and I'm just trying to maintain the current usability and expectations.
13) PTZ Presets
Wirecast has devoted a lot into the PTZ camera controls from the looks of things. I can see a lot of things in the future for this and with the ever growing list of lower and lower cost broadcast quality cameras, I can only foresee more people using them for live events. As such, the default built-in PTZ presets for show producers is critical and should be an easy add since it's triggering a single function that you've already got built into Wirecast. Like much of the above, technically I don't own any PTZ cameras myself (*cough* yet *cough* but if anybody out there works at a company that produces them… wink wink) and therefore cannot take advantage of this, but you have this feature already available within Wirecast, why not make it a quick and easy button? The intent is to quickly have access to features without having Wirecast the front-most window or in this case, even have the window for the PTZ camera active / open.
14 Shot Preview Icon
Your live icons are great. Truly. While I don't keep them large, they help visually help me generate compositions with confidence. Yes, there are times where a shot would have MINIMAL elements on it and likely not be a good thing to use a live icon or a full frame representation. Take a bug or watermark for instance. But PiP, singles, slides, slideshows, lowerthirds, etc. would all allow for quick visual confirmation of what is selectable and what is available. This doesn't need to be live, even a "generate thumbnail" button in the stream deck software that would tell wirecast to generate a jpg or png to use would be useful. It would allow for a shot icon to be generated quickly. ANd on top of that, it's something I have NOT seen your competition do (yet). Lettering aside for this case. This is purely the background graphic of the icon.
Matthew Potter & Lynn Elliott - I'm having this same exact issue, and it's infuriating. Why would dragging and dropping a shot change the parameters of the shot I created? It's bonkers.
I'm also seeing the shot buttons reset to "By Grid Position" instead of "By Name" on restart of either Wirecast or the Stream Deck software. It's not always consistent, but when it starts happening it will eventually happen to all my shots on the stream deck device. I then have to manually remap each shot to be "By Name" and copy the name from Wirecast again....it's a huge pain and super time-consuming.
One other thing...there is a massive delay in the green and red "on-air" and "preview" symbols that show on the Stream Deck board. Sometimes, I'm 4 or 5 shots down the line before those symbols catch up. They are a nice visual aid for me on the stream deck board, but if they don't work they're just a distraction that makes me have a heart attack sometimes when I'm about to take a new shot live.
lynn_elliott - One more issue I'm seeing consistently is that to clear all layers reliably, I have to assign a button "By Name" called "Clear Layers".
If I try to map a single key command to all the Clear Layer tiles on all 5 layers, it will not clear all layers. It will do a few, but won't do all. I then tried to assign 5 different key commands to each of the 5 layers Clear Layer tiles. If I assign those commands individually to a stream deck button, they work. If I try to use a "Multi Action" button on the stream deck with the 5 different commands as "Hotkeys" it will again not reliably clear all the layers. It's bizarre. Maybe it's sending the hotkeys too quickly to Wirecast?
Ideally, I would be able to use the "Multi Action" with individual layer "Hotkeys" so that I only ever clear the top 4 layers. I use the bottom layer in Wirecast for all the host's audio and I really never want to turn that off until the end of the stream.
Dustin Carpio Please do note that this is beta. I have actually been able to do some tweaking with it myself and supplied some code that they can hopefully implement that deals specifically with the dragging to another location. It's still a little buggy but I wouldn't doubt that the next beta will have some of the improvements mentioned above.
One thing to also note that is encouraged is the "multi-action" ability within Elgato. The current recommendation (due to limitations within Wirecast) is to create a multi-action button within the software. Not the most intuitive manner and will ABSOLUTELY need to take time to build these shots simply because the name method is the only one possible to use like this but it does put a stop gap in the issue pertaining to collections/compositions.
To be clear, I'm not defending Telestream here, simply stating that there are updates that are coming that do solve some of the issues.
Matthew Potter - Thanks for responding so quickly. I finally figured out how to get the "Multi-Action" command to work correctly. Just implement a "Delay" between each "Hotkey" command of 20ms or more. It works like a charm. My guess is that Wirecast can't receive key commands as quick as the Stream Deck can deliver them.
See my attachment for how I designed the multi-action button to clear Layers 1-4.
Dustin Carpio Hi Dustin - thanks for the feedback. One question I have for you on regarding what you're calling as "delay". I'm trying to reproduce this as I understand it, and have not been able to. Could you do a step by step to reproduce, and describe what you're seeing. That will help me. (or if you want to do a video, that works too).
Dustin Carpio Matthew Potter , Thanks for all your feedback and work on this. Just to update you both on a few things from your feedback above:
- Shot name as a dropdown: We are implementing this now.
- Collection mode: We are implementing this. This will allow you to assign multiple shots on multiple layers to one button.
- AutoLive button: We are adding an auto Live button which you can toggle on/off
- Text smaller on buttons: Unfortunately, we have to set the default font size for both Windows and macOS, and the font always shows up larger on Windows than on macOS. So we chose a size that looks OK on both macOS and Windows even though looks a bit larger on Windows.
- I've logged the bug where you drag & drop buttons and the parameters changed, and we're fixing that. I need to look into Dustin Carpio 's report of the buttons resetting intermittently on restart.... I'm not sure I've seen that (or it may have already been fixed...)
lynn_elliott regarding the drag and drop buttons, the git repo I sent to you offline has this feature, though there is an issue with flickering on initial drag. It should be a good starting point for the dev of your internal plugin to use as a basis for updating the existing code and the plugin. Everything is commented in my code too. Also, the text smaller should be something that is actually in the image settings of the JSON file (manifest.json) within the plugin and can be changed easily.