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Rendered output color not matching

I’ve been testing capturing through HDMI, and everything seems to be working pretty well except the color rendering.  The color as displayed in screenflow seems to be fine, but when it’s rendered to file or to Vimeo, colors are off pretty dramatically. this only happens when I capture the HDMI feed into screenflow, if I capture it with Quicktime and then place that into screenflow I haven’t had any problems.  

This doesn’t affect the screen capture colors at all. 

I would be great to use ScreenFlow to capture 4k video from a decent camera (have tested it with several Sony cameras), but need to figure out why the color mismatch and if there is a way to prevent it.  On the video am working on one clip capture at the end rendered’s fine, but all the other clips seems to render like the attached file. (left is screenflow, right is rendered file opened in QuickTime)

Catalina 10.15.2, ScreenFlow 9.0.1. Using a BenQ 271 and a NEC 302W display (both high gamut displays).

Thanks for any thoughts.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Sorry, this is taking some time as it's a fairly difficult issue and is requiring some work on ScreenFlow color handling. Yet it does seem to impact some users more than others.

    Like
      • sheriffderek
      • Evil Design Educator
      • sheriffderek
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      John Beede It's got to be everyone. They just don't have the eye to notice or something. It's clearly - changing the video - every time it gets run through screenflow.

      Like 1
    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
    Elias Coutinho de Oliveira said:
    I don't understand how this impacts only a few users.

     I don't anything that different on my system I tested on an iMac Pro and used a DataColor test chart.

    Facetime camera with DataColor test chart. Capture and export from Quicktime next to ScreenFlow capture and export ProRes codec.

    ScreenFlow 9.0.5
    iMac Pro
    macOS Mojave

     

    Like
      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Side by side with Scopes.

       

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      • sheriffderek
      • Evil Design Educator
      • sheriffderek
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      CraigS  - this is a good idea. It seemed to show that things weren't that bad on your end. But they ARE.
       These are not the same color.
      and when there are millions of little pixels making up a human face ... this is NOT anywhere NEAR close to reasonable.

      Like
    • sheriffderek
    • Evil Design Educator
    • sheriffderek
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    I don't know much about how color works... but my girlfriend is a professional photographer - and she says there's something weird happening.

    Sony a5100 > cam-link 4k > ScreenFlow

    The top image is how the preview looks (even in ScreenFlow recording monitor) / and in every other video capture I tried. The bottom image is after it gets recorded in ScreenFlow. The detail seems the same... so, 'saturation' sounds pretty right-on.

    If we set the saturation down to color-controls >saturation > 80, then it gets pretty close, but the color is also off in other ways.

    This is on a brand new fast iMac with fresh installs of everything.

    Like
    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
    sheriffderek said:
    This is on a brand new fast iMac with fresh installs of everything.

     Yes it's worse on some computers than others and we need to figure out why. I can see it on my computer but it's much less pronounced. That's why I took screenshots of scopes. You have to test with exports playing in the same player because internal program processing may not be as accurate. What you see in ScreenFlow may look different than what's exported (although how it displays in ScreenFlow is also an issue). What's exported is what counts. And you have to compare exports in the same player since different players will look different.  A file played in VLC may look different than a file played in Quicktime. 

    You can even upload the very same file to YouTube and Vimeo and the colors and contrast may look different and that's further complicated if they are not played in the same browser.

    I was an assistant colorist for a time.

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    • sheriffderek
    • Evil Design Educator
    • sheriffderek
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    I believe in you, CraigS . As always - you are doing the good work!

    Here are some more sources to help figure this out:

     Then I exported THAT - and it just keeps going... for every 'capture' or 'export - it looks like the same percentage of 'wrong' is added to the mix.

     For all I know... this could be a new problem - introduced by a recent update.

    If it's  'not' effecting people - then, they probably just don't notice.

    For me - it's basically halting my entire business.

    What do you suggest? What can I do to help?

    Here's the video -> https://vimeo.com/475576625

     

    How can this be anything other than Telestream's #1 priority? 

    It's taking the video and ruining it.

    Like 1
    • sheriffderek
    • Evil Design Educator
    • sheriffderek
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Can you gather any info from the team regarding the actual files? If I record 100 videos - and spend 800 hours / are my files just garbled for life? Or - will a possible fix restore them? Is it just an 'adjustment' - or is it degenerative - and something that we can't correct? Any information will help me decide what to do - of if I'll need to buy different software for this. Like I always say - you charge too little... and I love ScreenFlow - and I'd be happy to pay hundreds of dollars for "works better" upgrades.

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    • sheriffderek
    • Evil Design Educator
    • sheriffderek
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    OK. Wait... so -this is 9 months old?

    What is going on? Can we use ScreenFlow 8 and have things work like they are supposed to?

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    • sheriffderek
    • Evil Design Educator
    • sheriffderek
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Here's a test with Camtasia.

    There's a slight difference - in how the quick-camera color is / which seems like that's on their end. The top right actually looks like it's more proper... 

    This is just to show that it's not degrading every export. It stays the same.

    Like
    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
    sheriffderek said:
    Here's the video -> https://vimeo.com/475576625

     Seems the privacy setting prevents me from sharing this with the coders.

    Like
  • sheriffderek this has been a problem with screenflow for all users for multiple versions and updates. It's affecting every computer I've ever worked on (5+) and every camera I've used (iphone, gopro, DSLR, mirrorless). Same footage in iMovie, FCP, and Premiere all looks great on export. But like you, i get the massive sunburn effect which has bricked Screenflow for me until it's fixed, and as you'll see in this thread, there's no timeline for the fix. I recommend planning accordingly.

    Like 2
    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
    sheriffderek said:
    If it's  'not' effecting people - then, they probably just don't notice.

     See my test chart with scopes on my system. Scopes are not showing what others are seeing.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
    sheriffderek said:
    Is it just an 'adjustment'

     You can make color adjustments in ScreenFlow before export to compensate.

    It's possible that the source processing might be a factor. My test is with the built-in Facetime camera.

    sheriffderek said:
    Can we use ScreenFlow 8 and have things work like they are supposed to?

     ScreenFlow 8.2.6 is also Catalina compatible. You can download under Previous Versions and test it. 

    Like
    • CraigS 

      There is no point in trying to compensate for the colors in the editing in the screenflow, not least because the options for this are quite reduced, which was not a problem when I had to compensate for small adjustments, now, with this amount of red, it is impossible.

      Like
    • sheriffderek
    • Evil Design Educator
    • sheriffderek
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    What do we have so far - as far as concrete facts?

    Does this have to do specifically with the CAMlink?

    Does this have to do with when we record screens AND camera?

    Can this be measured?

    Why does it look red - and then look less-red after export?

    left: recording screen AND camera      right: just camera

     with-screen shows super red in SF  without-screen shows red too / but much less

     

    After exporting that the color chills out a bit / but the bottom left - is notably chunky.

     

     

    Can we get all the facts compiled somewhere / or a list of what we need to do to help explain the problem / or test various sets of options??? 

    How are we going to come to some conclusions on this?

    Camtasia has tons of unsolved problems like this too - so, switching doesn't solve the problem either. I've probably put in 10k to get ready to record this next set of videos - and this feels really really terrible. 

    Is this just a "discussion" or is there a feature request submitted? Where is it? Do I need to make one?

    Do you have a more fleshed out high-end product for this? Wirecast is for streamming.

    CraigS Can you do a color card test - where there are some background things / like hold it on your chest - or show some other things? It's gotta be more factors than that.

    What is the official stance? Are you saying that it's just a fluke - and it's not real?

    Please inform us of what telestreams official stance is - and what the plan is.

    Like
    • sheriffderek  I’ve submitted several tech requests and the only thing we know for sure is that it’s screwed up and they don’t know how to fix it or when it’ll be fixed 

      Like 2
    • sheriffderek 

      I understand your indignation.

      I feel hurt, because we are not talking about free software, it is paid software that has a BIG PROBLEM. And the worst thing is that it is one of the best software I have used, I have been using it for over 6 years.

      Camtasia is heavy but I have no problems with colors and I have already noticed many improvements in the latest updates.

      About Screenflow, to try to do something, since I need to work and it is practical, I got a solution that is working for me, I added it to the other topic I created.

      Including, excellent idea.

      Like 1
    • sheriffderek
    • Evil Design Educator
    • sheriffderek
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Here's one - with no camera / and only the screen being recorded

    After export - the colors are changed. 

    Like
    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
    sheriffderek said:
    Please inform us of what telestreams official stance is - and what the plan is.

     Thank you for showing why this is not a simple issue. As I posted it's an investigation. Given all the permutations with different results that may range from sources to OS to GPU to monitors, we're sorting this out. Add to that Big Sur and Apple Silicon and its GPU and there's a lot involved. You've born out the complexity in your testing. 

    You can certainly test for further variations comparing CamLink to Facetime and maybe a Logitech webcam as well. 

    We're investigating. Ideally, we'd want a uniform color fidelity system. 
     

    Like
    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    ScreenFlow 9.0.5
    macOS 10.14.6
    2017 iMac Pro, AMD Vega 64 GPU

     

    Left Test Chart on Desktop
    Center Test Chart after capturing in ScreenFlow.
    Right Test Chart exported Apple ProRes
    It's very close for me more or less like my other examples. Slight differences for sure but nothing as dramatic as your posts. Changes seem most notable in green/blue areas.

      

    Like
      • sheriffderek
      • Evil Design Educator
      • sheriffderek
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      CraigS What if you hold that card next to your face / and move it around - in a video vs just the card?

      If it was possible to say 14.5% saturation is added - then that would be one thing, but I dont' think it's that simple.

      Maybe you could put together a public "best bet" for dealing with this. What inputs and outputs are ideal. In the end / we're all just getting videos up on vimeo - so, it's probably a standard "best" for the majority.

      I'd love to just have a "fix it" setting in the export / or at least configure one that'll work until the future. Sometimes I'm taking videos that have been exported already / sometimes many times - and then using them in one file - and that's looking bad. So, if there's a consensus on a set of rules "only use fresh video" haha (I don't know how to talk about this, obviously). But a companion guide.

      > How to use ScreenFlow's amazing set of features when it's also ruining your video: a guide for how to work through the inherint video problem of the program - until further notice

      Maybe a Version 11 that has a "uniform color fidelity system."

      Charge me $100 a month. I don't care what it costs. A one-time $129 isn't maintaining  momentum. Just call it 'Pro' or whatever.

      I know it's not easy. I totally get that there are tons of moving parts. What I don't believe - is that there's a team of people working on it. I know you're a smart guy, Craig - but don't they also have a few people who live and breath this stuff on the team? Don't they think this is the #1 priority? If the cake tastes bad, then it doesn't matter if it's pretty. In _this case_ - if it's not pretty - then well, what?
       

      Like 2
    • CraigS look at how long this thread is.

      Then look at how many people care to compare color swatches to make their projects work

      None...

      Just fix it 

      You’re losing all of us 

      Like 2
      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      John Beede We endeavor to fix it but it's not a simple problem given the input devices, OS and GPU impact. This may be compounded because it may only be impacting a subset of users (my tests don't show the dramatic issues you are seeing). That would mean we have to determine what common element users with the problem are having. Color swatches are the most accurate way to test by engineering standards. They expose issues much more easily.

      Like
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