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Rendered output color not matching

I’ve been testing capturing through HDMI, and everything seems to be working pretty well except the color rendering.  The color as displayed in screenflow seems to be fine, but when it’s rendered to file or to Vimeo, colors are off pretty dramatically. this only happens when I capture the HDMI feed into screenflow, if I capture it with Quicktime and then place that into screenflow I haven’t had any problems.  

This doesn’t affect the screen capture colors at all. 

I would be great to use ScreenFlow to capture 4k video from a decent camera (have tested it with several Sony cameras), but need to figure out why the color mismatch and if there is a way to prevent it.  On the video am working on one clip capture at the end rendered’s fine, but all the other clips seems to render like the attached file. (left is screenflow, right is rendered file opened in QuickTime)

Catalina 10.15.2, ScreenFlow 9.0.1. Using a BenQ 271 and a NEC 302W display (both high gamut displays).

Thanks for any thoughts.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    ScreenFlow 9.0.5
    macOS 10.14.6
    2017 iMac Pro, AMD Vega 64 GPU

     

    Left Test Chart on Desktop
    Center Test Chart after capturing in ScreenFlow.
    Right Test Chart exported Apple ProRes
    It's very close for me more or less like my other examples. Slight differences for sure but nothing as dramatic as your posts. Changes seem most notable in green/blue areas.

      

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      • sheriffderek
      • Evil Design Educator
      • sheriffderek
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      CraigS They don't look too far off there... but if you put the individual colors next to each other- they are WAY off. Not just a little... like - I'm a completely different color person.  (3 of the same color from your shot above)

       

       Is he black? native-american? really tan? Nope! 

      Like 1
    • sheriffderek
    • Evil Design Educator
    • sheriffderek
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
    CraigS said:
    That would mean we have to determine

     Does that we "we" as in you - and the people on the thread? Or the technical team who builds the software?

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      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      sheriffderek The developers. They do look at user input which is why they need details on each computer's specs. The user should send in the ScreenFlow Support Form I previously posted. I'm also posting information from this thread. 

      Possibly relevant is, Mac Model, GPU as part of that, OS, Video Source. Export settings. How compared. 

      Like
  • It seems to me what people are missing here is the codec used to export from Screenflow. When I had the opportunity to use it, I found that anything exported in H264 had the red shift, but export in ProRes did not, although it seemed to be more saturated, but that's a different issue.

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  • PS I'm not sure if exporting in Apple H264 creates the red shift, but using automatic or X264 does.

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      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Trevor Henderson Thanks for those observations. That kind of detail can be helpful as it points to variations in codec implementations.

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    • CraigS You're welcome--it seems to be only the x264 that has the red shift (to use an astronomical phrase) problem, not hardware accelerated Apple H264 or ProRes.

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      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Trevor Henderson That's an important find. Noted that to the developers as they investigate.

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    • CraigS I can't confirm Trevor Henderson 's claims. There is still a significant color difference when rendering ProRes - It's just different, but not necessarily better.

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    • Gregor Beyerle You may be right about ProRes; I may have been comparing ScreenFlow x264 to videos made with ProRes in Adobe Premier Pro or Final Cut Pro X. I now sort of remember trying ProRes export in ScreenFlow and finding maybe slightly less red increase then with x264, but increased saturation and darkness on an older MacBook, but I haven't tried it lately. I did find more recently, however, that hardware accelerated Apple H264 did not have the problem.

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      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Trevor Henderson I think this points to the crux of the problem. There's variability in the results. We need to determine the variables as we investigate the fix so the results are more uniform.

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    • sheriffderek
    • Evil Design Educator
    • sheriffderek
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    in my latest project:

    no-screen-capture: seems ok
    face + screen capture: red
    ^ drop down to 85% saturation -- seems ok again

    (that's the closest I can get to the adjustment)

     
    (I'll have to check on that codec note. My prores stuff still seems red + it's gbs HUGE ha... so, I used handbrake to get it down to 800mb.

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      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      sheriffderek I still think there's another variable besides codec though. I think there may be a few variables of differing impact depending on the system (speculating).

      Like
  • Any update here? Has anyone figured out color correction settings that make the export look normal? I'm also reducing saturation to 85% but it's still not resembling the source footage to the point where I'm happy with it. Thanks!

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      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      John Beede We're finding there's a lot of variables. Some computers have virtually no issue so we are examining how to fix.

      The best way is to adjust is to do a test export and then go back to ScreenFlow and adjust to compensate.

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      • sheriffderek
      • Evil Design Educator
      • sheriffderek
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      CraigS  I would like to see an example - of a computer that shows 'no issue.' If we can show side-by-sides of the video deteriorating - then they should be able to follow the same exact steps and show us that it's working. 

      manually setting each video clip to 87% saturation is what I'm having to do now. and more work if it's already been exported. It's not the worst- but it's still only 95% correct.

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      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      sheriffderek I've posted mine using color charts. There's often some change but it's small compared to what others are seeing.

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      • sheriffderek
      • Evil Design Educator
      • sheriffderek
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      CraigS And I appreciate that. However, I'd like to see as many 'none issue' photos - as we've provided 'issues.' I've used 2013, 2018, 2019, and now 2020 - macbooks, imacs ipads etc... - and I don't buy it that it's a fluke. I'd just like some proof - so, I don't have to think about it every time I have to change the saturation - which is 200 times a day.

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      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      John Beede You can create Style presets with the Color controls for example.
       

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 1 yr ago
    • Reported - view
    sheriffderek said:
    and I don't buy it that it's a fluke

     ??? Sorry but that's not been the claim. It's based on variables that not everyone (whether OS or Mac or file types) experience equally. Some are affected more than others. 

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      • sheriffderek
      • Evil Design Educator
      • sheriffderek
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      CraigS  affected by _________________ ?

      I just don't believe there's anything being done about it / or any research happening - or a table of info - or anything - besides you kindly moderating the topic.

      I think if I asked 1000 people to do a check - and to compare, - and take a survey - about computer + camera + USB interface, etc. - we'd find out REAL quick. And, you know - I just might do that myself --- but I think it'll make Telestream look bad - and that's not what I want. I want to give you lots of money - and to have the best editing suite on the market and be life-long friends!

      Like 2
    • sheriffderek 
       

      I think exactly the same.

      That's because the screenflow only deals with the MacOS system, it just isn't prepared for anything bigger. You can't deal with a single system, imagine if you were bigger dealing with Windows and all its variants and I never saw anyone complaining that in Adobe Premier on Windows when exporting it had different colors for each machine, but anyway, what can I do?

      Like 1
  • 3.5 hours of mind-numbing exports later, I discovered some solutions that work for me as well as some triggers for the red output... I'm posting in the hopes that I can help someone else not have to waste days of their time and miss deadlines like I have because of this flaw.

    The solution is in video filters, NOT the saturation, brightness, contrast sliders. I added the following and add them IN THIS ORDER:

    1. Hue adjust 2 degrees. 
    2. Vibrance +.2 (not -.2 which doesn't read as being any different)
    3. White point adjust to: #F3FFFE

    The white point adjust is the MOST important factor! Even just adding a white point filter will improve your video colors 90%. BUT if you add it before the hue and vibrance, it will negate the effect of the white point adjustment and spit out a red file. However, if you add it last, it will make the output look similar to the source file. 

    If you add those video filters, you can export in automatic (h264) AND prores422 with a file output that looks very similar to the source file. perhaps you'll have to make a few changes based on your hardware, but you can see by the image that it made a massive difference. 

    Next, for craig, i discovered some things. Please pass this along to developers. It may help... and I don't want to keep adding these filters and still want to work with screenflow because other than this, it's an awesome software: 

    1. When an external monitor is connected, the output is a different shade of red. Awful either way, but it does affect the output. 

    2. When the screenflow window is moved across monitors, the bright red color takes over the viewer window until the image or storyboard thumbnail is clicked. Perhaps this is a clue. Further, moving back and forth will continue to compound the red. 

    3. Finally, opening files in VLC makes them look more red than when opening in quicktime. again, perhaps a clue if you use programming that's similar to VLC.
     

    Like 2
      • sheriffderek
      • Evil Design Educator
      • sheriffderek
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      John Beede Good finds! 

      Have you been able to save that as a style preset? Or do you have to manually put those 3 on - in order - on every single clip?

      Like
    • sheriffderek I don't know how to make a preset (@craigs is there a way?) but you can select all clips in you sequence and apply the filters to all clips at once. 

      Like
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