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Output Statistics - RTMP queue size snafu?

We have been noticing when monitoring our RTMP streams that the RTMP queue size seems to compile to the point where I assume the RTMP endpoing must be backed up.  Watching the broadcast from the "end users" perspective I am not seeing any issues when this happens.  We have plenty of bandwidth on site (using CBR at 5mbps...where we have about 980mbps up constant available to the broadcast machine), so I assume the backup is not on our end.

 

The weird thing is.. I see the backup but then within about 30 seconds, the queue size disappears and it just shows a "blip".  Where the history doesn't show the massive queue that I was seeing in real time.  Is this a bug in the statistics window or am I not understanding how to read this.  I tried to find more comprehensive documentation to understand how queue size is being reported or what it actually means, but none of the manuals I could find on the site seem to give me anything detailed. 

 

See the screen shot of "before and after".  The before looks like the queue size is completely backed up...which then 30 seconds later (after) turns into just a blip on the timeline.  

 

Any thoughts?  Again, I am not seeing anything wrong on the stream from what I can tell...so I assume this is a UI bug?

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  • Have you updated to Wirecast 14.2.1?
    Are you seeing the streaming icon go from green to yellow or red?
    Also select RTMP Queue Size to see the correct scale (you have bitrate selected). Perhaps the change seems large due to the scale but maybe insignificant. Perhaps just a bug also.

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  • Yup, running the latest and greatest version of wirecast .. on windows (20h2).

     

    Streaming icon is green as green can be; network stats show unit running LAN at 100% throughput 980mbps up.

     

    I selected both bitrate and RTMP queue size...well actually we have everything selected/checked.

     

    But yea in the screen shots show the same time line where its insanely HIGH... then moments later...nothing.  This is why i thought its either a bug OR i dont understand what its showing me.

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      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Cody Ferreira And I get see a spike as well and it had no impact on my stream.
      Perhaps it's something as simple as a small amount of packet loss at one point and the packets are resent. 
      You can see that scale "scaled" and the top is now 500ms.

       

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  • Cody Ferreira said:
    I selected both bitrate and RTMP queue size...well actually we have everything selected/checked.

     They're checked but you have bitrate highlighted. Please highlight RTMP queue

    You would see it in milliseconds and in my case it's sitting at the top of the scale but that's only 30ms

      

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  • ahhh i see what your saying!  Okay will give that a look tomorrow.  thank you for the details.

     

    But that also makes me feel like its a true bug.  From moment to moment the timeline shows drastically different data sets even though no change in selection was made.  I would assume if I had RTMP highlighted it would have shown the same data... but with a different measurement.  will check more tomorrow.  thanks again.

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      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Cody Ferreira 

      Developers noting:
      Wirecast sends RTMP data over a TCP socket to the remote server.  If there is network congestion, the amount of data waiting to be sent over the socket starts to grow.  We have no insight into why this is occurring.  

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  • Cody Ferreira said:
    But that also makes me feel like its a true bug. 

     I'm inclined to agree. Seeing your scale normally and at the time it occurs (as per my example) may give us a handle on why the variance.

    If you can get me the "normal" and "spike" scale I can write it up since we can compare it to mine. It's clear I'm seeing the same issue. I tested on a Mac and my own internet connection so it seems to not be system or even internet connection related.

    Investigating and requesting more information on WIRE-18893

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  • Ive been trying most of the morning to get you more screen shots, but the Queue Size is stuck always at the top of the graph.....which says 30ms.  Which seems like its broken.. that or not useful, if it always is just 30ms, the graph should probably have a different scale :) Again... bandwidth is good; throughput is 99-100% LAN.  So its a bit inconsistent from what I can tell.

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  • Cody Ferreira said:
    but the Queue Size is stuck always at the top of the graph.....which says 30ms.  Which seems like its broken..

     That means it's working. That's the ideal. The scale changes if the queue begins to fill.

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  • !!! ahh i see that makes a lot more sense.  Thank you for the clarity Craig; maybe a recommendation would be to put some more details in the Wirecast documentation around this particular feature.  Maybe I am just dense but I feel like the documentation made it seems like it would have been easier for me to self discover how its suppose to work.

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      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Cody Ferreira Personally I agree with you. It should explain what is being measured and what the impact of any variation would be in the results. 

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  • I've been running some streams where the queue size is around the 30-50ms where I believe it's normal and then spikes up as high as 15, 18, 20s  There isn't any change to the camera output.  After it scales the mountain it drops down to the valleys again.  In the past with other versions the colour of the stream icon would change to yellow or red or off when struggling but with 14.2.1 I still see solid green even when the spikes appear.  What range would trigger changes in the icon colors?

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      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      jimmcnally It's possible the momentary change is too short to impact the overall buffer fullness over time. I'm adding your information to the investigation.

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