0

Streaming From Mac Pro 2019 to YouTube: Dropped Frames

System:

  • Mac Pro 2019 with the 16-core Xeon
  • 96GB RAM
  • AMD Radeon Pro Vega II GPU
  • Fully updated to MacOS 11.5.1

I'm trying to stream to YT in h.264 4K/60, and Wirecast does produce a sharp image.  But I note along the bottom status bar in Wirecast that it's dropping frames like mad.  I'm assuming that's an encoder overload?  In other words: the older h.264 encoder on the AMD GPU is falling over, perhaps?

FWIW the GPU is "OK" for computational horsepower, but I'm aware that the hardware encoder on it is a couple generations old.  I'm guessing that may be the thing, but I'm uncertain (similar happens w/OBS Studio).

Thanks for any guidance.

16replies Oldest first
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Active threads
  • Popular
  • Jason Van Patten said:
    I'm trying to stream to YT in h.264 4K/60,

     We're investigating some similar issues but it may depend on your complete workflow. It's best to test doing a local recording to an SSD drive, eliminating any internet or CDN/server-related issues.
    Please confirm you are using Wirecast 14.3 specifically.
    Your source, video capture hardware, driver are important.
    Also, you must set Wirecast Preference > Canvas > Video Display rate to 60 as well.

    Like
    •  CraigS 

      Thanks for writing back.

      - No, I'm not going to test with recording locally.  I have a GigE symmetrical business class connection to the 'net, and am 4ms from the biggest peering facility on the entire planet (Ashburn, VA, where all the data centers are).  It's not the network, the CDN, or anything external. :-)  It's either the software, or how it's interacting with the hardware.

      - Version is 14.3 trial; evaluating this before I plunk down the cash for it.

      - Two video, one audio source

      1. NDI 4K/60 video stream from another PC on the same 10GigE switch
      2. Elgato HD 60S+ USB capture device with a GoPro (1080p/60) attached
      3. Sound Blaster USB DAC/ADC for audio

      All are working fine within Wirecast, at least the best I can tell.  There are no drivers for either of those devices to worry about; all plug'n'play.

      - I did set the prefs accordingly to 4K/60 for the canvas.

      Like
  • Jason Van Patten said:
    It's either the software, or how it's interacting with the hardware.

    ISP can experience packet loss even momentarily. Server/CDNs may experience buffering. Please follow our instructions and test with a local recording. Please answer my question about Wirecast Preferences Video Display Rate specifically. 

    Sorry, but we need specifics to troubleshoot this. There are several things in your description that must be tested and we must eliminate each possible cause.

    Like
  • CraigS

    I understand you don't know me from Adam, but I'm going to ask that you not insult my intelligence with the ask about "network, CDN, etc" testing.  When I say that there's a software/hardware interaction problem, you can bet I've done the requisite testing BEFORE coming to your forums and asking.

    But, just to put this to bed: I just ran a 30 second h.264 hardware encoding output to an MP4 and was dropping about a frame/second.  So, again: it's nothing external to the network here.  The focus is the software and its interaction with either the OS or the hardware (or both).

    As far as settings: here's the window.
     

    Like
      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Jason Van Patten Sorry but we have to work with verifiable information because we also don't know the customer's familiarity with the program. Thanks for verifying the Video Display Rate. 

       

      Jason Van Patten said:
      I just ran a 30 second h.264 hardware encoding output to an MP4 and was dropping about a frame/second

      Thanks for doing that. I assume you were encoding at 60fps as well.  Was it Apple H.264, MainConcet H.264 or x264? 
      Yes, that can make a difference as well.

       

      Jason Van Patten said:
      you can bet I've done the requisite testing BEFORE coming to your forums and asking.

       But we need verification such a packet loss tests. I can't make any assumptions about your previous testing. I've certainly seen issues with fiber connections.

      Rather than deal with that uncertainty testing sources doing local recordings through Wirecast, then Wirecast ISO recording, then local recording outside of Wirecast through Quicktime for example. That may tell us where the drop frames are originating ranging from source, input processing, encoder processing.


      Sorry if you're not happy with our testing and verifying protocol but our inquiry avoids any assumptions.

      Like
    • CraigS 

      Was it Apple H.264, MainConcet H.264 or x264? 

      Apple H.264.  It's hardware encoding or bust in this case.

      Like
      • CraigSModerator
      • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
      • CraigS
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view
      Jason Van Patten said:
      Apple H.264.  It's hardware encoding or bust in this case.

       Test x264 as well. This may confirm an issue specific to Apple H.264 encoder.

      Is your NDI 4Kp60 source using NDI 5 Tools ScreenCapture/Scan Convertor or something else?
       

      Regarding the Elgato HD60+ it may not be supported by Wirecast on macOS. See this list.
       

      Can you record using Apple Quicktime with it, ideally a source with a clock display a frame count? You would then be able to jog through the recording to see if it's dropping frames. 

      Like
    • CraigS 

      Can't test with x264.  Trying to push 4K/60 through this Xeon will drop the system to its knees.  Have already validated that with ffmpeg.  It simply can't be done.  That's why I said "hardware or bust".

      The NDI source is either with the NDI Screen Cap HX, or the NDI plugin on OBS Studio on the source machine.  It doesn't appear to matter.

      If the HD60 S+ isn't supported, then I'll have to punt.  That's a non-starter for me.

      At this point I can't expend any more effort with test recordings.  I appreciate you need data, but it's clear to me that the interaction between Wirecast and the hardware encoder on the Mac Pro is a bit sketchy.  And that may very well be due to VT.  I know how sucky VT is.

      Like
  • Jason Van Patten said:
    Can't test with x264.  Trying to push 4K/60 through this Xeon will drop the system to its knees.

     So x264 results in high CPU%?

    Jason Van Patten said:
    NDI Screen Cap HX, or the NDI plugin on OBS Studio on the source machine.  It doesn't appear to matter.

     Both should work of course.  Try doing an ISO recording of the NDI source. This avoids using the Wirecast output encoder. 
    Next to Tracks it'll show you frame size and frame rate (in your case it should say 60 for your source. You can record in ProRes or x264. ProRes would be easier on the CPU of course. No need to do any recording or streaming with the output encoder. This will tell us how Wirecast is handling the source. Quicktime Player should show you the frame rate. Dropped frames will be obvious if the frame rate is less than 60fps (or 59.94).

     

    Like
  • Jason Van Patten said:
    If the HD60 S+ isn't supported, then I'll have to punt.  That's a non-starter for me.

    It only supports 2160p60 in pass-through mode.
     Can Quicktime See it as a source and record?
    And is that recording 60 frames a second?

    It's possible pass-through may work as it may not be using any proprietary software or driver for processing.

    Like
    • CraigS 

      It only supports 2160p60 in pass-through mode.

      Correct.  I'm only pulling a 1080p/60 signal from it, not a full 4K.  It's overlaid/cropped on top of the NDI source.  It shows up in Wirecast just fine.

      Like
  • Jason Van Patten said:
    Correct.  I'm only pulling a 1080p/60 signal from it, not a full 4K.  It's overlaid/cropped on top of the NDI source.  It shows up in Wirecast just fine.

     Test in Quicktime and then do the same ISO test in Wirecast. That will let us know if there's an issue with Wirecast handling it as a source compared to Quicktime. There are devices we haven't tested that may work well or it may indicate it's close enough (compared to Quicktime in this case) that we can investigate testing/optimizing for compatibility.

    Like
  • Thanks for the suggestions/help.  You can close this if you want.  I haven't the time to keep performing all these tests you're asking me to do.  I can absolutely appreciate you need more data, but I'm going to leave that up to you to gather via other means.  Like purchasing your own Mac Pro and trying.

    At the moment, Wirecast isn't the solution for me.  And that's perfectly OK.

    Like
  • Jason Van Patten said:
    that the interaction between Wirecast and the hardware encoder on the Mac Pro is a bit sketchy.  And that may very well be due to VT.  I know how sucky VT is.

     Yes VT is an issue. We're finding it much better on Apple Silicon. We think Apple's Silicon implementation may be better. Apple H.264 is much easier to implement for VOD. There are a number of issues in using it for live streaming. We've spent a fair amount of time looking at Wirecast-specific workarounds but each brought another set of limitations.

    Like
  • Jason Van Patten said:
    At the moment, Wirecast isn't the solution for me.  And that's perfectly OK.

     Probably a very different direction than you're thinking but we also have Lightspseed Live Stream.

    Like
  • Jason Van Patten said:
    Like purchasing your own Mac Pro and trying.

     BTW we have one and test with it but our tests have been with 1080p30 and 1080p60.
    Generally, we ask customers to test and, in cases like this, do a similar test on our own system to see if we get the same results. It can expose (sometimes overlooked) variables between systems.

    Like
Like Follow
  • 9 mths agoLast active
  • 16Replies
  • 53Views
  • 2 Following