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Audio issue with ATEM Mini

After many year struggling to get different cameras recognised by Wirecast I'm finding the simplicity of the ATEM Mini brilliant. Pictures and Audio work perfectly with the HDMI output, but with the USB into Wirecast on a Mac I get the pictures but no sound. The Mac can see the audio coming in, but I can't find the way to capture it within the same Wirecast shot. My workaround at the moment is to capture audio with a separate shot on the level below, where BMD audio is recognised fine. But then I need around a .5 delay to stream in sync. Any suggestions welcome on what I am missing. Thanks.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
    Peter Armstrong said:
    The Mac can see the audio coming in

     How have you verified this?

    We have a Mini and the sound does work. Perhaps you're not seeing it. Make sure you have Show Duplicate Sources enabled. 

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
    Peter Armstrong said:
    I can't find the way to capture it within the same Wirecast shot.

     Please explain. Wirecast doesn't have anything that would limit this. You can have many video and audio sources on any shot. If you can add audio to any shot you can certainly add it to a shot with video whether the same or different device.

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  • Thanks, Craig. Working fine now.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Peter Armstrong You're welcome of course. We're going to make the auto-detection of the Mini USB input a bit easier in an update.

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    • PaulMEngineering
    • Software Engineer, Telestream
    • PaulM
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Peter Armstrong : The Wirecast 13.1 Beta should have a fix for the ATEM Mini's USB connection not appearing in the list of system video and audio devices. Glad to hear the "Show Duplicate Devices" option worked for you in the meantime. 

    Hint: It's possible to select multiple sources in the Add Source dialog by <Ctrl>+clicking them. When you do, they'll all be added to the same shot as multiple shot layers.  This can be convenient for dealing with UVC/USB devices which appear in the list as separate camera and microphone sources.

    Going back to the original claim about your years of struggle getting different cameras recognized by Wirecast... which cameras and HDMI capture hardware has been giving you trouble?

    Like 1
  • PaulM : Hi Paul. To answer your question, I've been working with Wirecast from the early days and for all the great features, the 2 big problems have been camera recognition and system crashes. The latter seems much better now (and we are probably pressing the system less hard). On the former we always found firewire very reliable with prosumer Sony cameras. When Macs switched to HDMI we have tried everything from BMD ultrastudio mini  recorders to their intensity shuttle and other 3rd party hardware. The story was always the same. We could get it working at base but at a location we just couldn't rely on all the pictures coming up on Wirecast. We then had the frustration of trying many levels of settings in cameras, mac, interfaces and WC and hoping to get pictures before the event started. And from what I have read on the forum over the years, many people have had the same issues. Particularly with new system upgrades at all levels happening all the time.

    So now with ATEM everything seems far more reliable, since the switcher adapts whatever HDMI signal it is offered into a matched output. I can input Macs and iPhones as easily as any of my different cameras without adjusting settings. And the mixer output in turn works perfectly into Wirecast as a USB input. So it seems an ideal next step in reliability. I will have it on the road next week and I'm hoping for the best.

    Of course the problem is the lack of live previews. Perhaps BMD will come up with a solution. It's not a Wirecast issue. At the moment my lash-up is to split the HDMI streams from the cameras to preview monitors in parallel with the ATEM inputs. 

    Going back to your question, for times when I want a simple, easy to carry and set up system, I would still like to find a 100% system using a BMD ultrastudio mini recorder and a single camera with known settings, plus Wirecast Go and an iPhone (which does work well). But it would have to be as reliable as ATEM seems to be so far.

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    • PaulMEngineering
    • Software Engineer, Telestream
    • PaulM
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Sorry to hear that things seem to change when you get on location.  What is it they say?  "No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy."

     

    I've heard about problems when you attempt to attach multiple UltraStudio Mini devices to a laptop but that's about providing power to the devices.  As you know, those UltraStudio Mini devices get pretty hot which means they consume a fair amount of power.  In that regard, the advantage of the ATEM Mini is that it has an independent power source.

     

    Intensity Shuttle USB is not on our supported device list. I also know that some Intensity hardware does not support automatic format detection which might explain the claim that cameras are not recognized. You have to manually match the camera signal with video format option in Wirecast.

     

    What I like for a mobile, laptop-based, multi-camera, Wirecast streaming system is a Thunderbolt-3 PCIe enclosure... like the ones used for eGPUs.  They have independent power supplies and you can stick just about any 4x HDMI or SDI capture card in there.  That way you can do all your switching in Wirecast and you don't have to squeeze through USB or tack an extra layer of HDMI capture into the chain.  Some Windows laptops have a TB3 port now too.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    And in my experience, if you contact the PCIe video card manufacturer, they may recommend specific chassis even though you may not find them as "official" on the chassis manufacturer's site. For example, Magewell told me they had tested Sonnet chassis. 

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
  • CraigS thanks Craig - would you give a specific example of a set up that you use please? ( I use Wirecast on MacBook Pro )

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Mark Slocombe I believe Magewell 4 input HDMI card has been tested with specific Sonnet enclosures for example. Genearlly you'd look for a Wirecast compatible video input card and contact the card manufacturer and ask them about testing they've done in PCIe to Thunderbolt 3 Chassis on Mac. Some Chassis list compatible cards but I've heard that some card makers have done their own testing. All four sources come in on the single Thunderbolt 3 port which has the bandwidth to support that. Wirecast would see four separate cameras.

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  • Thanks Craig, I’ll take a look. 

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Mark Slocombe You're welcome of course. We have a number of users going this route (Video Capture Card in PCIe to Thunderbolt 3 enclosure).

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    • George E. Kennedy, Jr
    • Video Creator in the production and live event space. I Produce, Shoot, Edit, Engineer, and Stream.
    • gekjr
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Mark Slocombe Yes, you can as Paul described. You can use the Blackmagic Decklink Duo 2, 4 SDI In ( you can Also do 3 ins 1 out any assortment in the one card), you also use the 4 in 4K card HDMI card. I use both when I’m hired to just stream and taking feeds from a AV vendor. Two flavors of the Decklink Duo 2. The are the cards I use in one external Thunderbolt 3 Box, you just need to be mindful of your streams and bandwidth pushing over that TB3 cable.

    https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/decklink/techspecs/W-DLK-36

    https://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo-express-se3e/overview.html

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  • George E. Kennedy, Jr thank you George - most helpful! I never knew about this way to switch between cams / sources as separate shots within Wirecast, always thought I needed an external switcher.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    George E. Kennedy, Jr Thanks for providing a specific example. 

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    • George E. Kennedy, Jr
    • Video Creator in the production and live event space. I Produce, Shoot, Edit, Engineer, and Stream.
    • gekjr
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Mark Slocombe No worries. BTW, A decent machine is required.

    Also, The ATEM Mini has been solid with Wirecast as an Encoder. 

    In reverse I've been using Wirecast as a Playback and Pip Machine outputting to the ATEM Mini Input 1, then using AJA Helo as my Encoder. Lots of ways to mix things up.

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    • George E. Kennedy, Jr
    • Video Creator in the production and live event space. I Produce, Shoot, Edit, Engineer, and Stream.
    • gekjr
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    CraigS 👍🏽

    Like 1
  • George E. Kennedy, Jr yep, have a good pair of MacBook Pros. Good to hear Mini ok w Wirecast - I have it but not used live yet. Do you use the usb output or hdmi? Earlier this thread usb audio sync issues were mentioned. 

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    • George E. Kennedy, Jr
    • Video Creator in the production and live event space. I Produce, Shoot, Edit, Engineer, and Stream.
    • gekjr
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Mark Slocombe Haven't tested the USB out yet, only HDMI to an AJA Helo Encoder and Projector. 

    I've also given Wirecast a break as my main encoder using the AJA Helo as the main hardware encoder freeing up Wirecast resources to do other things.

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    USB out does work but sometimes one must enable Show Duplicate Sources in the Add menu. That will be improved in Wirecast 13.1 which will result in the ATEM USB being automatically available if you're using its USB out.

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  • CraigS Your colleague Paul mentioned usb synch issues above, so was wondering if that's widespread...

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    • CraigSModerator
    • Telestream Desktop Forum Moderator
    • CraigS
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Mark Slocombe  Generally, video (HDMI/SDI) to Thunderbolt is more reliable than USB. 

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  • George E. Kennedy, Jr Hi again George - what happens re scaling of different sources in this set up? As you know a big benefit of the Mini is its autoscaling to the format of the first input... say we have 2 cams at 1080p and a Powerpoint feed in a different format - do you just need to adjust the PPT shot in Wirecast?

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