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Multiple Issues with Vimeo - Anyone Else?

I'm doing a corporate shoot. We're using an ATEM through Web Producer into a MacBook Pro with Wirecast 8.1 and 8.2 (used both, same issue with both.) and in testing we are experiencing the following issues:

  • When using a stream delay greater than 120 seconds (client wants 5 minutes) the stream just restarts every 5 minutes. It never goes live for the viewers. Even at 120 seconds it still doesn't go live. The only reliable launch is to remove all time delay.
  • When we create a live session in Vimeo in advance, the stream rarely "takes". Wirecast shows the broadcast is working. However, on Vimeo it is never live. Until the stream ends, then an archive is shown after processing. 

Since we're live tomorrow morning, we have to press on. Our "work-around" is to use a smaller delay and to build the session on vimeo at the time of the broadcast. This is not ideal, however, as it is not how the client wanted to proceed. Anyone else having issues?

Basically, the setup is unreliable to get started. I also tried doing it as RTMP and have experienced similar issues. Once it's going, all seems to work fine. 

For the setup we are running an ethernet connection with a 2017 MacPro (maximum system available.) The stream is 720p/30 at 3500kbps.

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  • Ryan Douthit said:
    When using a stream delay greater than 120 seconds (client wants 5 minutes) the stream just restarts every 5 minutes. It never goes live for the viewers. Even at 120 seconds it still doesn't go live. The only reliable launch is to remove all time delay.

    You can set the delay from 0 to 999 seconds. However, greater delays require greater memory use. The amount of memory used is displayed when you enter the amount of delay.
    What does the Estimated Memory show and how does that compare to memory usage in Apple Activity Monitor?
     

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  • Ryan Douthit said:
    When we create a live session in Vimeo in advance, the stream rarely "takes". Wirecast shows the broadcast is working. However, on Vimeo it is never live. Until the stream ends, then an archive is shown after processing. 

     Since it may be a factor, how are you viewing the stream (OS and Browser version). Have you tested this without any Stream Delay? 

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  • Ryan Douthit said:
    The stream is 720p/30 at 3500kbps.

     That doesn't seem to be one of our Vimeo presets
     

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  • CraigS with a 300 sec delay I show 136050KB with our specific profile. This notebook has 300GB free on the SSD and 16GB of ram installed with no other apps running. (I didn't check Activity monitor at the time, I can do more testing on that when I get back to my office tomorrow.)

    I had tried using the Vimeo profiles, but then built my own when the built-in ones exhibited the same problems. So I went to the Vimeo docs and build a new profile that matched their recommended specs (note that all the pre-sets, though they might be right, did not adhere strictly to the Vimeo recommendations.)

    My primary test system for this is Chrome and Safari on OS X 10.12.6. I also checked on iOS (most recent). All showed the same issues. It didn't appear to be browser related, but might be specific to Vimeo's side of the operation.

    In today's stream I created a session in Wirecast with a delay of 120 seconds. It streamed according to Wirecast but was never acknowledged by Vimeo. I then stopped it. Created a new one with the exact same settings and it worked. It appears to be unrelated to the delay. I get the same flakiness regardless of delay. (though 300 seconds never worked, so there's that.)

    Vimeo has some very rudimentary bugs still, so I'm not confident in their side, but it's hard to impossible to know what is Wirecast's responsibility and what is Vimeo's. For example, if you set up a private link on Vimeo, ONE of the embed codes (you can get it from two places in admin) is incorrect every time. It adds the private link hash which breaks the embed. Such poor QC on Vimeo's side isn't reassuring. 

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  • Ryan Douthit said:
    I can do more testing on that when I get back to my office tomorrow.)

     Double check that in case there's a memory issue whether it's Wirecast or something else (perhaps the estimate is way off for example).

    Ryan Douthit said:
    Vimeo has some very rudimentary bugs still, so I'm not confident in their side, but it's hard to impossible to know what is Wirecast's responsibility and what is Vimeo's.

     I agree at this point it's hard to know the cause. One thing you could do is immediately after a failed attempt, contact their support and ask if they can provide a server log especially since Wirecast does seem to be sending. That may indicate something happening either on Wirecast side or Vimeo side. 
     

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  • CraigS They actually reached out to me right after I made this initial post today. We're discussing the issues.

    One major hurdle is that their support desk only replies to emails until 1pm weekdays. And there is no such thing as phone support outside of the uber-expensive Enterprise plan. 

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  • Ryan Douthit I just tested Wirecast 8.2, macOS 10.13.2, using Wirecast Vimeo: 720p30 2Mbps x264 H.264.

    It streamed for about a minute or so and the image on Vimeo froze (checking in Safari). Wirecast didn't report any issues. though. Refreshing the web page sometimes resulting in the video continuing for a couple of seconds and freezing again. First guess would be this looks like a Vimeo problem but I'll do another check.

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  • Ryan Douthit I tested using OBS 20.1.0 using RTMP and Output Mode Simple which is x264 2500Kbps (CBR), Keyframe Interval 0=auto. I streamed for just over two minutes and I was able to view in Safari without issue.

    I then tested in Wirecast 8.2 using RTMP and our 720p30 2500kbps preset but enabled Strict Constant Bitrate. Like OBS I was able to stream for over two minutes without issue.

    It's quite possible that Vimeo requires CBR which isn't enabled in our Vimeo presets.
    We'd need to investigate this further but you may want do the same test in Wirecast and see what happens.

    These are the settings I used in Wirecast.
     

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  • As a follow-up, I've been in contact with Vimeo and they have been able to replicate the issue of a stream not going live -- though looking like it does to Wirecast. It's an issue unrelated to Wirecast and  it should be fixed in the next back-end update. (No ETA given)

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  • Ryan Douthit Thanks for updating us.

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  • I have been using Vimeo Live for awhile now and I know its not a Wirecast issue I am having but I am stumped on what to do. I am gonna see if you guys have any idea what is going on. I have been using Wirecast the whole time and currently I am on 8.2. What is happening to many of my streamers including me that they are having to reload the page every hour after the streamer presses play to start the video. This is happening on Mac & PC also on different browsers... I also have monitored just watching on vimeo.com page and on our page with the embed player. The support has monitored on their end once and said it did not freeze on the one hour mark. I am using the Vimeo presets and the place where I stream from has an AT&T Enterprise fiber. This has been happening since we started with them almost 2 months ago and I have been in contact with their support but they have no clue or no answer to give me. How do I go about trouble shooting something like that? I did one test with OBS and the same behavior existed. The stream will work fine after the user reloads their page and presses play again.

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  • Haukur Hauksson said:
    The support has monitored on their end once and said it did not freeze on the one hour mark.

     The OS and Browser and version may be a factor. Ask them specifically what browser and version they're testing with. It might be related to HLS and/or MPEG Dash or whatever they're using and how the browser is handling that.

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  • We use Wirecast 6 to push to Vimeo.

    I was very excited when Vimeo announced their live service.  Their pricing was a little bit off originally (5 hours of streaming for the PRO Live service), but they've doubled that.

    I initially paid month-to-month as we tested it out with a few events.  There were some initial bugs (some that were left unexplained), but the user experience was generally fine.

    Fast forward, I've signed up for an annual PRO Live membership and we've done a few more higher-profile events.  Vimeo still seems to struggle with buffering issues.  Support always comes back to say it is likely a CDN issue.  I'm beginning to have a deep mistrust of Vimeo's CDN (Fastly) and wondering if anyone else has distribution issues with Vimeo.


    Although I love only pushing one HD stream via RTMP and having Vimeo repackage it (less processor intensive) - I'm thinking of switching back to Dacast and pushing multiple bitrates simultaneously - mainly because Dacast uses Akamai (hopefully superior to Fastly for this).

    Thoughts/experiences?  Does anyone else have continual buffer issues on the client side (not for all clients, but a larger percentage than should be expected) that get blamed on the CDN?

    Scott

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  • That is exactly what I told the Vimeo Staff that has been trying to help me out, I told them the CDN (Fastly) that they are using does not perform well at all. I have used several streaming providers and the performance with Vimeo Live is the worst. I am still hoping they wake up and do something. If people are having the same issues as I am having and they don't do anything about it, they are not going to have a successful live streaming platform.

    I am using Vimeo to host all of my video archives and they are probably around 700 hundred or more so I was hoping to have one solution for my video platform.

    We get complaints about buffering, I have to tell people to choose lower quality tho their connection would be considered "High Speed" (15Mbps-50Mbps).

    Also, a big portion of my streamers freezes completely after one hour from when they start to play the video so different times for each person and they have to reload the page to get the streaming going again. This is a mysterious problem and Vimeo say that they have never heard of anybody else having that problem. I have tested this on different encoders plus this happens to people on all platform Mac, PC, and different browsers. My archive on Vimeo is flawless so I am quite sure it is the CDN (Fastly) that they use for the LIVE service.

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  • Haukur Hauksson Scott Halver  thanks for those updates on your experiences with Vimeo. Let's hope they begin to address these issues.

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  • Haukur Hauksson & Scott Halver we have to replace our streaming provider and we're considering using Wirecast & Vimeo Live (we also have all of our archives on Vimeo so it would be preferable to use them for live service).  Have there been any improvements in Vimeo Live in the last couple weeks?

     

    Also, I'm curious as to what caused you to try out or switch to Vimeo Live from your previous provider.

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  • Linden deCarmo 

    We just moved away from Vimeo Live within the past ten days - I can't speak to any improvements since then, but it has been a short period of time.

     

    The big selling points for going to Vimeo Live initially were cloud encoding/repackaging (our previous provider didn't have this) and a user chat module (there aren't too many services that offer this).  At this point, we've made a decision to forego user chat indefinitely.

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  • Scott Halver did the chat part work reliably?  That's a feature which we're interested in too.

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  • Linden deCarmo The chat did seem to work well.

    However, another issue we had was that we would create the video and embed it in a page and then the day before or the day of, the embed would "fail."  It would throw some errors and then we would have to scramble to swap it out.

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  • It seems Vimeo is still going through some growing pains given they are new to live streaming support.

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  • Scott Halver thanks for info on the issues you encountered.  We've been considering switching to Vimeo Live but I haven't even begun an eval yet because unlike YouTube, they don't offer a permalink on the embedded player to automatically show the most recent live video feed.  We have too many events for me to have to manually update the player HTML to use the correct live stream URL.  A couple of Vimeo reps on the Vimeo forums said it was on their roadmap, but gave no indication of when it would be rolled out.

     

    Did you open a trouble ticket on the player throwing errors/exceptions?  If so, what did they say?

     

    The reason I'm asking these questions is our current streaming provider stopped their service this weekend so we've got to figure out an alternative paid solution (we use FB and YouTube and I like to have a paid source that isn't best effort for if/when problems happen).

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  • Linden deCarmo The issues we experienced were documented through various support tickets.

     

    They said engineering was looking into the issue with no timeline for correcting it.

    We're falling back to Dacast (Akamai CDN) for the intermediate term but may move to Wowza Streaming Cloud longer term.

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  • I just did a week long test with Vimeo and had 3 drops where no one could explain to me what happened. I used StreamSpot last year and Vimeo as fallback, and it was rock solid. 

    I was too hoping to use Vimeo since we dump just about everything else on there -- I might need to reevaluate that idea. :(

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  • After being with them for nearly 5 years, we left Livestream after they were bought by Vimeo.  Just had no desire to go through the growing pains of another new CDN.  Livestream was OK, but still had numerous issues they could not or would not address.  We are now on YouTube, it's the best experience we've ever had and I've been streaming since 2006.

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  • Mark Walter My issue is that I need for it to be secured, more or less white labeled and ad-free. 

    I also used a company called StreamSpot. They are based in my hometown, and they've been doing streaming for churches for a few years now, and have expanded to secular groups. I might look into using them exclusively. 

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